Spiritual and Physical Effects of Feeding

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Spiritual and Physical Effects of Feeding

Postby deacongray » Sun May 14, 2006 10:30 am

Have you ever been so depleted of energy that you thought you would go mad if you didn’t sate your vampiric hunger? Has the emotional effects of it tried your soul? Perhaps you have looked for a means to sate that hunger in ways other then feeding. Have you run across the urban legends about ways to satisfy your hunger other then feeding, legends that plague our community?

I have been reading lately about the hunger trying to answer in a logical manner some of the questions that go along with it. Some of them are pretty simple to answer, but most of the answers only lead to more complex questions. Like, whether or not a vampire will die if they don’t feed?

The answer to that question is clearly no. There seems to be no direct link between nutrition and the act of feeding. A vampire can go for years, some times lifetimes with out feeding with out serious physical effects. The truth is the body simply doesn’t seem to need to feed in order to survive anymore then one needs to have love, or human contact. While they seem to be basic needs the truth is that in a lab controlled environment a patient can live with none of these things for a lifetime.

This has long been the point of debate between the theoretical stand points on whether a vampiric condition is a physical or spiritual condition. Those who argue for the spiritual condition often ask the question that, if the body can survive with out something how can it be a physical condition? And, if it’s not a physical condition how then can a biological need for it really exist?

The Physical condition supporters in turn point out that all living things, when kept in an awake alert environment will die with out physical contact. Further they show that the body is dependant on the chemicals that certain actions produce in their bodies in order to survive. Mental and physical well being is clearly in jeopardy if one is left in total isolation for too long. Many even die as children from a syndrome called “failure to thrive”, which is in most cases seem to have no physical reasons. The only common link seems to be the amount of love and attention the child gets.

So if both are ambiguous, how is the vampiric phenomenon explainable, and what are the effects of feeding, or not feeding in the long term? These questions don’t seem to have any clear answers, which is why there is such a divergence of theory in the community. What we do know however is information gained from circumstance.

Over the Last few years I have heard many vampires complain that when they are not able to feed for long periods some serious issues arise. One of them is an emotional down turn that sends the vampire into a depression. Another is a feeling of anger and frustration, the in ability to think clearly. I have heard of people even having these emotions taken to extremes.

People have reported suicide attempts, mental illness when depression has went to an extreme. Some report head aches and poor general health, which would seem to indicate some kind of physical reaction. The exact mechanism of that illness is often elusive at best.

This would seem to counter the original question about whether a vampire could die from not feeding. After all they don’t feed; they have an emotional reaction, or physical reaction, which leads to depression, feelings of hopelessness, and finally an attempt at taking ones own life, the effect being death resulting from not feeding. While other vampires live for decades with out feeding and live a fairly normal life, at times never feeding at all with no such result as their suicidal brethren.

This takes us right back to the beginning though doesn’t it?


I decided at one point to run some basic tests. I wanted to see if there was indeed a physical reaction that could be measured. My findings seemed fairly promising, though my research group was significantly insufficient to really reach any strong conclusions.

I found five female vampires who agreed to be test subjects. Basic physical readings were taken, and then all five where asked to feed initially, in their own manner that night, and then return the following morning for to allow for a second set basic readings to be taken. These included a basic set of vital signs where taken, a blood glucose check, and a white blood cell count was taken all thanks to the friendly lab technician at my place of work.

The results starting out were fairly normal for four, but one had a decreased white blood cell count, though that could have been due in part to a recent bacterial infection. The blood pressures were all with in the normal levels and the blood sugar count showed a normal as well before feeding.

The following morning however things changed in an interesting manner. Blood pressure in all three had dropped blood sugar levels where higher, though not unhealthy, and the white blood cell count was significantly higher. Not to mention that my volunteers all had a new issue with whining when it came to blood draws.

I asked them to come in for a follow up on days three, five and seven; the agreement was that none of them would feed in this time. I would ask some basic questions about their emotional states, and try to discover if they had any recent developments that could mess up my test.

Day thee result was interesting. The higher levels noticed the first day had fallen a little, the girls all appeared to be in generally good moods, and the whining however had increased significantly.

Day five I noticed a decrease in levels again, this time back down to more normal levels just as they had before the feeding had taken place. With the exception of one girl who was noticeably higher in all areas and removed from the testing when I discovered she had feed three times the night before. The whining had commenced but a new increase my own appeal to the ladies was noticed.

Day seven was interesting. I found that most of the girls where fairly down in spirits. Their lab results were all down below normal levels and the whining had moved from annoying to nearly hostile. They made it clear that they no longer wished to be part of the project, would allow no more blood draws, and where glad it was over. I got three phone numbers, and invited to a party.

Ultimately I learned very little. What I did learn though was that in this limited and uncontrolled test group significant changes did occur physically. These changes seemed to coincide with the amount of time between feedings.

I then went to an old friend, a vampire who had not had a donor in several years. I asked to test her, and she agreed warmly even after seeing the needle. The results showed no difference between her the young ladies during the mid point of feeding. This was troubling.

How could one stay normal after a sustained period of not feeding, while four dropped so significantly over such a small period of time? The answer came to be like a bolt of thunder…actually the friend pretty much summed it up for me like this.

The issue is both physical and spiritual in nature. The body it self does not require the feeding, however the emotional well being of the vampire could become compromised if they didn’t learn to understand their hunger and it’s effects. There was a physical reaction to feeding, this much is clear, but the down side of it appeared to be more of a mental emotional aspect that had very real physical effects.

The Vampire who had learned to understand her hunger had also discovered that when she used her more vampiric abilities more, she needed to feed more, but if she fed and used little or none of those abilities, the need to feed was significantly less. More, she pointed out that one of the abilities developed by the vampire over time had been an ability to hold in reserve their strength in times of famine.

I postulated that vampires might actually feed in ways they had not considered their personal manner of feeding in the past. That perhaps the body or spirit sensed the down turn in energy and went to another means to collect it naturally. The issue however was still the same. If this were so, then why would any vampires fall into the depression?

A concept emerged and I started to consider the feeding might well have an addictive quality. Like drinking, though it’s a very poor example, some could drink and enjoy the effects with out becoming an alcoholic. While others once they tasted the energy instantly became hooked on the high of it.

Many of my fellow vampires didn’t agree with that concept. They believed that strength of will could well manage one through the hunger, and the emotional result of not feeding. We then considered that the most successful of the vampires in controlling their hunger came out of their own self control ability.

Rather then turning to some urban legend for an artificial high, they turned instead to relaxation techniques, other hobby’s and interests. In time their hunger became instead of a roar in the front of their consciousness, a more subtle growl at the back of it. The need, the desire was not simply eliminated, but it was controlled and in some cases indefinably.

The answer, I feel, is in the individual will and strength of character which often evolves as the vampire becomes more attuned with an understanding of themselves. They learn to understand what it is they are feeling and what the cause of it is. The also learn how to handle such things in their own ways. So Recognition of the hunger, understanding of it, and then a proper means to decentralize the focus on feeding allowed for a successful period of controlled fasting.

My scientific method however proved useless in the study of feeding; however it did prove to be evidence that A. Vampire chicks could be conditioned to hate needles. B. Unfed vampire chicks will indeed drop their standards enough to give me their phone number, and C. Using my head to get vampire chicks to fall for my manipulations in the name of science was not only a success, but provided results I never expected…though I have yet to get a return call from a single one of those phone numbers…Hummm…maybe I should try the metaphysical method next and see if I can get anywhere with the feeding theory, and with vampire chicks, in that manner.


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Postby Syngin » Mon May 15, 2006 2:06 am

Ok first let me say your attempt was commendable but I think that you are looking in the wrong area. Perosnnaly I think that the area that would best offer results would be to test for enzymes and hormone changes. This of course would require a bit more than most of us have at their finger tips. That is unless we can find an actual Dr. or research facility with a vamp working there. HMMMM! I was thinking of maybe making a carrer change that is a possability.

I think that our bodies adapt or evolve to the situation. Those who are sang which I am assuming your test subjects were, simply find another way to feed. This doesn't have to be a conscious thing. The fact is that the body has a survival instinct that will not be denied. Like I stated before I feed multiple ways. I only feel the need to feed as a sang about every six months now and I can puit it off for much longer but it has very real physical side affects the longer I obstain. For one my sense of smell becomes affected. I can smell the most minute amount of blood.
What I do notice is that the amount that is required can be very small.
This leads me to believe that it is more a chemical reaction. It can be a spritual act but honestly it doesn't have to be.

I can ease the craving and still feel the same euphoria from the seemingly innocent sucking/licking of blood from a cut on a finger.
It seems to me that suicide and depression tend to be more the realm of those who take prana but do not know how to regulate a constant flow.
For those who are sang and unable to feed it seems logical to me that the survival mode would kick in. Would it not be logical that they would feed on prana unknowingly and like an unawakened vamp suffer the same symptoms? Which happen to include severe mood swings, deep depression, euphoria, addictions just to name a few.

History has proven that those with specialized feeding habits soon become extinct.
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Postby deacongray » Mon May 15, 2006 7:54 am

OK cool!

So my question now is this. Do you think that the enegry feeding required because of the vampiric skills many possess like astral travel, and precog and other such abilites?


I personally noticed the charm I employ to get the girls, is totally different then some of the more potent abilites but it is never the less an ability of mine that was not learned as much as inate to my needs...

I have yet to adapt in my feeding methods and honestly wish I could learn normal PSI feeding because I am going bonkers with out feeding.

Back to the point, When I use alot of charm and don't feed I can feel my enegry really drop...cause and effect on the engry side or the preception side of things?



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Postby The Madame X » Mon May 15, 2006 6:41 pm

The Vampire who had learned to understand her hunger had also discovered that when she used her more vampiric abilities more, she needed to feed more, but if she fed and used little or none of those abilities, the need to feed was significantly less.


This I feel is crucial.
Metabolism is the key with feeding.
And if you do not put your rush to work, its wasted.
An active Vamp metabolizes energy at a faster rate than one who does not exercise his pretarnatural abilities.

Thank you for aother terrific article.
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Postby Syngin » Tue May 16, 2006 2:57 am

Our abilities are for the most part cerebral. Being that the brain is a large muscle it would seem logical that you can live by the rule use it or lose it.
I know this is true of my own abilities. The more I use them the mpore powerful they become and the more controlled I become.
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Postby RavenHarte » Fri May 19, 2006 7:20 pm

Again donor perspective here..

For me I didnt become a donor because its some romantic fantasy, or because someone I cared about was vamp and I knew how to wield and manipulate energy so voila I'm donor. I became a donor because I generate a TON of energy just on my own, and then doing much magical work atop that just draws more to me. Ask MX and Wulf, I am a human energizer bunny, LOLOL. I have always had this so have always known how to ground, how to push energy off me to others, hell just release it ambiently even, and also how to draw it back off, from the elements from the Divine whatever.. its how I survived.

But man let me tell you.. having too much sounds to be just about as bad as not enough. For me it starts with me just getting too fidgity, ADD like, then I get twitchy, like a cafffeine high. If I go too long from that I start getting disoriented, scattered and unfocussed, very much like a sugar LOW. If I still dont get it under control, or am not in the position to do that, I will go right into ultra PMS mode, irritated, angry and in general you cant even touch me, nothing pleases me. Then the migraines.

Now as I said, I have always had outlets for this, though not always do I pay attn to my own signs. I can ground, I can expend my own energy for a ritual rather than using Divine energy, I can donate blood or platelets.. whatever... However I find immediate relief if I can donate psi to someone and sang donation reached me at levels I cant even explain. I felt release from energy I didnt even consciously know was built up there.

THIS taught me a huge lesson though.... for me feeding someone could actualy be like a drug. I know how to do all this on my own, but the vamp quick fix was easier. Psychologically, I can seriously understand how a vamp might feel suicidal and depressed when they cant feed. Physically I'm sure they feel like crap, and when you feel like crap who wants to actually have to WORK to feel better. But I thank god realized this as soon as I started being a donor and thus donate sparingly, and make myself continue to discharge my energy other ways. I dont rely on the vampyric feeding as my relief.

Maybe for some vamps this is what really needs to be taught as the primary way of handling hunger, rather than how to cultivate and care for donors. There will always be people willing to be donors of course, but dependance is never a good thing in my book. And in todays day and age I'm sure sang donors are a rarer commodity????

Deacon if you ever feel like studying donors, you'll have to let me know, I'd love to see where I fall in the bunch LOLOL
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Postby ShadowEyes » Mon May 22, 2006 8:39 pm

I found five female vampires who agreed to be test subjects. Basic physical readings were taken, and then all five where asked to feed initially, in their own manner that night, and then return the following morning for to allow for a second set basic readings to be taken. These included a basic set of vital signs where taken, a blood glucose check, and a white blood cell count was taken all thanks to the friendly lab technician at my place of work.


I would argue the methodology was not an incorrect assessment but rather the tests themselves. From what basis do we have to argue that the act of feeding would effect white blood cell count or glucose levels? If Sanguine, then technically there is a possibility of a change in blood sugar, although I suspect no difference from having any other meal (all food once broken down in the body is more or less indistinguishable from another). With respect to white blood cells, generally such a test is to determine if an effect has some sort of pathogenic or histamine reaction to the body and thus is not generally an effect of metabolism.

As you noticed a change in behavior with feeding, a far better analysis to conduct would be for several factors:

1. Endorphins and other opioid neuropeptides.
2. Behavior influencing hormones such as seratonin, adrenaline, gonadotropin, and so forth.
3. Specific nervous system related chemicals and neurotransmitters, such as sodium, potassium, acetylcholine, corticotropin (used in stress response situations), etc.

In addition, thyrotropin is a useful hormone to study as it generally regulates metabolism and thus has wide reaching effects.

To break down the experiment further, one would want to gather those of different "dietary" requirements and set to eliminate any faulty variables from the equation. For example, break sanguine and psy into differing groups, establish a set diet of regular food and a set amount of exercise, sleep etc. This eliminates any factors of the actual person and gives more emphasis to the test results. To use an analogy, you don't perform candy testing with just diabetics. :)

Blood samples before and after feeding would be useful for comparison. Assuming the individuals exercise similarly, eat and drink similarly and sleep similary (etc), then once having "fed" there should be of note recordable changes to observe, if any. One must also consider a control group as well. In this case, members from each group that does not feed through the experiment would be the control. Finally, you'll need people who are not vampires to add to both the experimental groups and to the control group.

This shall ensure more accurate data. Should you require assistance, please let me know. I don't have a lab but I'm still somewhat versed in molecular biology and could probably call in some favors with some friends at Emory, who if nothing else would be interested for the novelty.
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Postby The Madame X » Sun May 20, 2007 3:37 pm

Deacon
Can you please cross post this article to the crimson circle articles?
I think it would be helpful.
Thank you.
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Postby Sacrelige » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:01 am

"A concept emerged and I started to consider the feeding might well have an addictive quality. Like drinking, though it’s a very poor example, some could drink and enjoy the effects with out becoming an alcoholic. While others once they tasted the energy instantly became hooked on the high of it.

Many of my fellow vampires didn’t agree with that concept. They believed that strength of will could well manage one through the hunger, and the emotional result of not feeding. We then considered that the most successful of the vampires in controlling their hunger came out of their own self control ability.

Rather then turning to some urban legend for an artificial high, they turned instead to relaxation techniques, other hobby’s and interests. In time their hunger became instead of a roar in the front of their consciousness, a more subtle growl at the back of it. The need, the desire was not simply eliminated, but it was controlled and in some cases indefinably.

The answer, I feel, is in the individual will and strength of character which often evolves as the vampire becomes more attuned with an understanding of themselves. They learn to understand what it is they are feeling and what the cause of it is. The also learn how to handle such things in their own ways. So Recognition of the hunger, understanding of it, and then a proper means to decentralize the focus on feeding allowed for a successful period of controlled fasting. "

I adamantly agree with the concept behind the addictive nature, some can drink and be fine, others may drink and get addicted, It's application here is also strongly agreed with :)

As far as the next paragraph, to say everyone could just control it with their will is so far as to say one could control their chromosomes with a microwave oven. It relates to an argument I had with a former roommate, she said she would appreciate Trent Reznor's work if he would not make himself such a victim. It stems from a lack of pure understanding, I feel. If we were the logical and stoich creatures some might fashion us out to be, we could do that easily, and we could also each sit through our own individual Awakenings as though we were trying to phase out the trigonometry instructor in high school. Some maybe, but to say we all could or should be able to......Something to strive for, certainly, but again, one person could give up alcohol and be fine around it, and others might just have to stop going to bars. Nature.

If everyone could manage it by playing with their own short attention span lol, it'd be great, I have chronic back pain, but hate narcotics. I have a short attention span, and use that. A friend is experiencing something very similar, but she just can't get her mind off of hers, no matter what she does. Doesn't mean her pain or my pain is worse, or that either of us is stronger, just different :)

Repeated for the final paragraph quoted, no matter the amount of insight into a topic, some people just do not have the switch to detach themselves. It doesn't make them weaker or make them want it any less, maybe it even makes them more connected to their feeling, whose to say :) just different ^_^

A question I would like to add, now....

Do ye feel that yer own personal evolution is in part shaped by how ye handle yer own cravings? Anything from finding a new way to feed in desperation, to frustrating self-realizations whilst glaring into the stars...? We have many abilities many of us do not know about, do ye feel starving helps or hinders the path to evolution in that respect, for ye? It is my understanding that trauma and pain can truly lead us one of two ways. Maybe there is a connection with one's own psyche and the order or fashion with which they discover the tools they posess to feed?

:)

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Postby Alterra Von Feuers » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:43 pm

With personal evolution and growth come the ability to better understand needs and means of feeding. And to what is the best way to utilize them.
And with this I rarely have a problem finding sustenance. Being capable of 'multi- tasking' feeding techniques ,I find energy available on many different levels .
There is always a way of feeding preferred over others , but is not detrimental having to use another form to function or keep a balanced energy level.
When I have hungered to the point of desperation I discovered more than one way to feed , no doubt about that . More along instinctual was the need to find the means to satisfy that hunger at one time rather then 'learned ' processes I use now.

Human prana is the same type of energy simply derived in different forms (psi, sang, tantric) and of different vibrancy. (tasty positive , nasty negative, mellow medium). That it can manipulated and filtered as well.

Then it isn't all the same... putting it that way ..is it? :twisted:

Another interesting test possibility would be to take a couple test subjects and have them use different feeding techniques and check levels Shadoweyes described that could give more insight to what results of these feeding types procure .
Better yet ! A 'prana -o-meter' to determine how much and what difference is in the energies derived.. :wink:
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Postby Sacrelige » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:32 pm

*laughs* Prana-o-meter ^_^ we have the technology!!! lol

Do ye think maybe our Id gives us standards, and that in times of starvation we choose to look past them, or maybe it is some other boundary of comfort being crossed?

^_^

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Postby deacongray » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:19 am

Sacrelige wrote:"

A question I would like to add, now....

Do ye feel that yer own personal evolution is in part shaped by how ye handle yer own cravings? Anything from finding a new way to feed in desperation, to frustrating self-realizations whilst glaring into the stars...? We have many abilities many of us do not know about, do ye feel starving helps or hinders the path to evolution in that respect, for ye? It is my understanding that trauma and pain can truly lead us one of two ways. Maybe there is a connection with one's own psyche and the order or fashion with which they discover the tools they posess to feed?

:)

~~;'@


Yes, simply stated I feel that the more you learn and grow the more able you are to control your hunger. Still a KEY concept i left out of this was that with understanding we also learn how and when to feed. The more expirenced Vamps tend to develop ways, scheduals for some, of when it is important to feed.

I personally took more time than most I would wager. I started by journal writing on a weekly bases about my general disposition. I meditated on the very flow of my energy, and tried to really take the time to focus on Energy work...( I need to spend more time around Ezk and Alterra) I looked for patterns and learned that if I feed at lest every two weeks things tend to stay pretty smooth.

Still it was not stuff I could learn right off...Journaling, Mediation, Energy work, schedualing...all this and I still often mess up my own energy levels by use and neglect...there is always more growth and evolution.

I would have to say that it is spiritual, physical and mental growth that eventually leads us toward those goals of control and the abilities we seek to further develop. ( Good teachers help)

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