Anata also Anatman

Nonfiction literary compositions

Moderator: The Madame X

Anata also Anatman

Postby The Madame X » Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:06 pm

Here is a site offering some insight to the doctrine
http://www.butte.cc.ca.us/~wmwu/inclass ... n_soul.htm

You may also want to read:
Reincarnation Five Keys to Past Lives Safe and Effective Techniques for Recalling Previous Existences by Brennan, J. H.

“ The Soul and the Second Body
Anata means ‘no soul’ and classic Buddhism teaches that while individuals are trapped in the recurring wheel of birth Death and rebirth, they do not in fact possess souls.
…Buddhists deny a permanent individual spirit altogether…. The mind and the personality is created anew each time [a new life is formed], as are the subtle bodies. There is, as the Buddha taught, no soul which passes from body to body. Instead there is a vast and complex pre-existent entity (yourself) which creates the situation leading to the reincarnation chain. [a new chain is created as a link to a physical body with which to experience the prime material, death severs this chain, thusly to experience the physical plane again a new chain must be created.]
At a certain point in the process, the Essential You may decide to permit the filtering down of past life memories in order that the learning process may proceed more efficiently.”
This doctrine states that the traumatic process of death and birth affect recollection of past life memories.

I do however find this theory interesting and worthy of further exploration, as it seems to have fallen thru the cracks of time.
Last edited by The Madame X on Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ex Somnius Scientia
Madame X
Matriarch, House of the Dreaming

https://www.facebook.com/madamex.dreaming
User avatar
The Madame X
Member / Matriarch
 
Posts: 7164
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:48 pm
Location: Portugal / NJ US

Postby redlotus88 » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:11 pm

The idea of impermanence-or nothing in life is permanent, is an important concept to Buddhists. Here is a moment, the moment is gone. We are taught that attatchment-or a desire to have something leads to suffering, and the cycle is endless. No soul leaves us when we die according to Buddhism, just qi (energy). Some Buddhists who have embraced other philosophies and religons believe in the concept of a soul.
redlotus88
 

Postby Jezabel » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:31 am

I actually felt LESS confused before I read that site! As I said, this doctrine always did kind of give me a headache...I think especially where compassion is mentioned. How can compassion toward yourself be binding, but compassion you hold towards someone or something else is not? And if you're empty, then how can you feel anything for anyone or anything, do you not then lack emotion all together? When Chris Cabodi said, "The Buddhist teaching is that there is no self apart from everything else in the world. There is an interconnectedness that stems from the idea of dependent arising. One does not exist without everything else. We all exist because everything exists through everything else." on the site, isn't that pretty much saying the same as the shamanic belief that we are one with the universe and it with us? Am I interpreting all that right? Help and pass the aspirin bottle....
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -- Albert Einstein

"Before you speak, ask yourself ; is it kind? is it true? does it improve on the silence?" - His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Jezabel
 
Posts: 1293
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:21 am

Postby Necromancer9 » Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:01 pm

I wouldn't take everything Chris Cabodi says as gospel. He also states:

"There is no static self that stays the same from birth until death and beyond. The teachings of human soul follow the idea that the soul is the essence of the person and it cannot change, and does not depend on others to exist."

The soul "cannot change"? According to what doctrine? I know of no Christian, Jewish, Islamic , Hindu, Jain or other "soul believing" doctrine that claims the soul cannot change. Most of these teach that the soul grows with our experiences, actions and faith.

As for it "not depending on others to exist", most teaching do not directly claim that it does, however the implication is the our soul does depend on others. References to it taking a community of believers to grow would support this.

So while Chris would indicate that if we do have a soul, it is one universal soul. I would say we have individual souls that are interconnected to one another, like pedals on a flower. If I understand it correctly, this would seem a little more in line with shamanic thought.

Necromancer9
Necromancer9
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:14 am
Location: Savannah, GA

Postby Jezabel » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:32 am

Er, yeah...clear as mud...I think I have to reflect more on this,lol. o.o
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -- Albert Einstein

"Before you speak, ask yourself ; is it kind? is it true? does it improve on the silence?" - His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Jezabel
 
Posts: 1293
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:21 am

Postby Syngin » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:35 am

I'm afraid that past life recall is from my point of view detrimental to most peoples psyche. In my experience most of those I know who went delving into a previous life have had a very hard time dealing with it, since often they seem to come to an end in similar fashions everytime. I honestly believe that we are given the information as it is needed. There I things that I know as if I was standing there at the time of the event. I did not dream them I didn't read them and they often conflict with what is known about the subject at the time. These things are just something I "know". Like I know the sun will rise in the morning.

As far as bhuddist way of aproaching life. The idea is you must be selfless is that you must be giving to all creatures but not expecting anything in return. This sight does have a tendency to leave you in confussion on the subject and theosophy of practice.

A book that might better help you come to and understanding is actually a required reading for most martial artist. It is call Backwards Down the Path. It explains such concepts as how that which is sturdy and solid is weaker than that which bends to a stronger force. Reason that which is solid is destroyed that which bends bounces back to it's original form and remains unbroken. Anyway it would make the above concept that as Jez said is as clear as mud very clear like a cool mountain stream.
I Tego Arcana Dei
Syngin
User avatar
Syngin
 
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:51 am
Location: California

Re: Anata also Anatman

Postby Ghost » Sat May 13, 2006 4:53 pm

The Madame X wrote:…Buddhists deny a permanent individual spirit altogether…. The mind and the personality is created anew each time [a new life is formed], as are the subtle bodies. There is, as the Buddha taught, no soul which passes from body to body. Instead there is a vast and complex pre-existent entity (yourself) which creates the situation leading to the reincarnation chain.

From my own limited knowledge (and recollection from the religions class that I took in college), I believe what is being referred to here are the five skandhas -- five essences/aspects that make up the self. When we die, these go back into the universal pool. When a new entity comes into being, it draws from this pool of essences. Though when a Bodhisattva comes into being, these essences continue to reincarnate as the same person over and over until the Bodhisattva has decided that it is time to pass on (the current Dalai Lama has said that he might choose to be the last incarnation, for example).

Necromancer9 wrote:As for [the soul] "not depending on others to exist", most teaching do not directly claim that it does, however the implication is the our soul does depend on others. References to it taking a community of believers to grow would support this.

Quite true; the idea of the sangha (community of believers) is one of the Three Jewels of Buddhism. And on a greater scale, one of the core beliefs in Buddhism is that all things are connected; nothing is truly separate from anything else. So saying that our soul does not depend on others would seem to go against that tenet.
"God is love.
Love is blind.
Ray Charles is blind.
Ray Charles is God."
--Anonymous graffiti
User avatar
Ghost
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:59 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Anata also Anatman

Postby ArtimusAusir » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:59 am

Thank you Madame for bumping this thread up for me. I find this teaching to be quite interesting. I am a self taught student of differing religious beliefs. I knew of the Bhuddist teaching of the interconnectedness of all things, but had not heard the teaching of Anata.

However, while I do believe all things are interconnected to some degree or another, I firmly believe we all possess unique individual souls. Mind you, those souls all originate from the same source, once the soul is born, for lack of a better term, it remains unique unto itself. As it takes on physical life, the soul gathers memories of its lifetime and every successive lifetime after its first. As the soul reincarnates it stores those memories from lifetimes past in our subconcious to be recalled either as necessity dictates or as we begin to unlock those memories via meditation or other means.

I can see and understand how Anata would seem inviting to some, but not for myself.
ArtimusAusir
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:38 pm
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: Anata also Anatman

Postby The Madame X » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:21 pm

I think in order to retain a continuity of an intact soul it must undergo a specific process which may not happen spontaneously, at least not for everyone.
Keeping an intact soul essence thru various lifetimes should be the ultimate goal, but i do believe that to be rare.
Ex Somnius Scientia
Madame X
Matriarch, House of the Dreaming

https://www.facebook.com/madamex.dreaming
User avatar
The Madame X
Member / Matriarch
 
Posts: 7164
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:48 pm
Location: Portugal / NJ US

Re: Anata also Anatman

Postby ArtimusAusir » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:13 pm

I wholeheartedly agree Madame. I would say very few souls stay completely intact from lifetime to lifetime. I also believe that from lifetime to lifetime, our soul primarily allows us to remember those past life experiences that are pertinent to the particular life we may be living at that time, but like with most everything, there are exceptions, things that are such an integral part of ourselves that it remains clear to us either consciously or subconsciously throughout our soul's incarnations.
ArtimusAusir
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:38 pm
Location: Michigan, USA


Return to Articles (for the Outer Circle)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron