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House of the Dreaming • View topic - The Old Ways (at least how I remember them)

The Old Ways (at least how I remember them)

Nonfiction literary compositions

Moderator: The Madame X

The Old Ways (at least how I remember them)

Postby Aislin Ni MorRhiaghan » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:01 pm

Aislin Ni MorRhiaghan
 

Postby Mnemosyne » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:40 pm

Wow Aislin, That is an amazing read. Thank you so much for sharing it.
I knew it was much different back in the days but I never knew anything about the specifics of it. Hearing the details is really interesting. I've had a feeling the RPG might have came along based on something prior and not the other way around. Certain clues here and there. ;)

In many ways it would seem going back to the way some things were done in those days would be a very good thing. I'm one of those people who loves order and well defined structures, so much of that is appealing to me. The secret nature of those times is in some ways appealing too.
Thing is.... there is no going back. The best anyone can do is to try to keep the best parts,maybe even revive some of the things that worked, and to let the rest die it's quiet death.
We live in a different world now. Although there are goofballs by the hundreds running arond in thier little plastic fangs, there is more information available for those who need it. Having Vampyres not end up drugged out and in mental wards for lack of knowledge and choices is a good thing. That is probabaly one of the best things that has come out of these days of open display.


I would love to know others thoughts on how it used to be as oppossed to how it is now.
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Postby Khan » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

You Can Never Go Home Again

In 1987, I graduated high school as a freak with a secret. I was not around for "The Good Old Days", because I was too wrapped up trying to fit into the mainstream. There were no "others" like me in my neighborhood. The closest mention of a vampire was "Interview With A Vampire", and I was no Tom Cruise.

But "The Good Old Days" worked just like my days in the Marine Corps. Honor and integrity were the only measure of your character. And if you screwed up by embarrassing your brothers, you paid the price. No tribunal. No scolding. You were taken out behind the barracks, or down to the engine room on a ship if you were aboard one, and you had your nasty carcass bitch beat until there was only a fine pink mist and your face left for recognition. That was the only rule: No marks to the face. The Corps were full of guys reporting to sick call, because they "fell down the stairs". It was our code. It was the way we knew to keep our integrity of who we were intact. And it worked. There are small pockets who remember the code, but you will never see it or read about it.

You will never see it because the world changed. Since the advent of Woodward and Bernstein, reporters went from journalists to finding the scoop to shock the masses. Truth and honesty were optional. The "Old Corps" died as soon as hazing became public knowledge. Much like the "Good Old Days", history was relegated to myths told out in the field or in the back of a strip club.

The days of us being what was, shall never be again. Information on how to be a "vampire" is everywhere. You can thank whom you wish, but it shan't change here and now. Everyone wants to be noticed and accepted. Now, anyone with half a brain has to seriously ponder if whom they talk to are real or not. Psi's and sangs feud because of the result of the 90"s. AIDS and role playing made blood consumption obsolete, at least in theory. Sanguine types think psi's are phony and pretentious. And the only reason why that exists, is because quality was sacrificed for quantity. Kings with no kingdoms. Gods for the sheep.

I say this with no disrespect for those whom got us here. They paid a price, just as we must. We have two options. We can revel in the past, longing for what shan't be again, or we can fix what we broke. And make no mistake, we broke it. There are ways to spread information without seeking glory. There are ways to show without revealing.

We now live in a world dominated by marketing and spin. Even if the mainstreams finds us all out, there is way to make them feel better about themselves without castrating our ideals. It requires couth. It takes initiative. Most importantly, it requires discretion.

We can have our honor back. We can regain what was once held sacred. But if we fail to do it together, we fail as a whole. We must stop being so clingy, and cut away the dead weight. We must accept the survival of the fittest, and stop with utopian nonsense.

Be a true brother or sister. Learn to say "No" and mean it. Learn to look out for your own kind. Learn to sacrifice the self for the whole.

Honor is not free, and you can't get it from a book or a movie. You have to live it every moment of every day, or it shall be meaningless.
Khan
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Postby Aislin Ni MorRhiaghan » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:27 am

Couth and acumen. When I say I would not mind going back to those days, I should have likely expounded upon that notion. Many of the ways then are very different than they are now. For all the drama and silliness we are as a community in a much better place. We have technologies that we only dreamed of then. I agree with both of you. I don't think returning to those ways exactly would help. In fact I think the community has changed so much that it would be over and done with before it started should the community try. However, I would like to see the return of honor and chivalry and more importantly the pride of being Nightkind. I feel that we are doing that but so subtlely that it will only add to the beauty of the community.

I graduated in 87 as well. It was a good year for music...not so good for hair lol.

Eternally,

Aislin
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Postby Alterra Von Feuers » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:31 pm

Aislin wrote ~It was generally good common sense to curtsy or bow to an Elder and to give them the sacred greeting. This consisted of while in a submissive position (head bowed, eyes lowered, or in the case of men on one knee) to kiss the inside of the Elders palm. This indicated total submission to their will. I was surprised a few months ago to meet two young ones at a local gothic event who greeted me in such a manner. I wasn’t aware that anyone even remembered it, much less two in their early 20’s. ~

I to noticed more noble and chivelrous actions by a couple of younger men at Endless nights a couple years back that suprised me for what the majority of the younger generation simply lack in tact, manners and compassion . (male or female ) I think there are younger ones looking for more than just a name or house , that they yearn for lost values . Those qualities that earned respect and title with the honor and dignity so often lost us in a world of disentigrating virtue.To become an appriciated part of a whole collective. But to step out in the face of possible ridicule makes it hard for them to step foward with a positive attitude.
I dont believe we can go back to any exacts of decades past .but I do believe we need to uphold and encourage those remarkable aspects that give us pride and purpose in what we persue dayside and nightside. There was firm belief in blood feud and hazing, initiation and testing that made honor and respect of utmost importance in the day. Lost attributes that make a restless and unchallenged group within the seekers that have no direction.

I am glad for modern technology for at least many more of them can find a way to begin . Some old ways shoudnt die out but become incorperated with the new .

~A
~Falling into the waking dream~
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Postby rhen » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:41 pm

What an enlightening article! It's hard to imagine the community in that light. But I wonder if the community is better off the way it is now. I strongly believe in evolution and change, however, perhaps the community was not ready for that. The Black Veil has been revised many times and is not mandatory. Not that it's a bad thing but is there a law system that really works? Should there even be one? Not trying to be controversial, just curious.

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Postby Aislin Ni MorRhiaghan » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:41 pm

Thank you Rhen. The Black Veil is not mandatory...true. However, it is good common sense and a vampyre without common sense is a threat to every one of us. Unfortunately we can't force someone to use common sense, but we can separate from them when they don't. This has to be done on an individual basis and we have to stick to it. Let them find trouble on their own accord but do not allow them to bring trouble back to your doorstep. In some cases literally.

The code that we had then was more of a strict code of honor. There were community bylaws, but each coven had their own and they were enforced by magistrars. Magistrars were almost always impartial and had a spotless rep. And trust me all eyes were on them but at the same time, Elders were expected to handle a good bit of the diplomatic issues to keep the Magistrars from getting involved. In those days if you instigated issues in the community you were removed, or better yet it removed itself from you. It didn't matter how great a party you threw if there were bodies laying behind it.

I think the old ways even as strict as they were were what we needed for that time period. This is a different world, a different time, a different point in history. We don't need the same stringent rules and regulations and such but we do need structure. The biggest problem this community has is it follows anyone blindly. People no longer have to prove themselves...they simply give themselves a title and create a house. End of story. That is not the way it should be. But that is what the majority accepts now. I don't really know what is needed other than structure and the regeneration of honor. We have to get back to being beautiful, powerful, spiritual, and honorable. Those things are not optional. They are important and it is equally important for us to remember as Nightkind that we once called each other brother and sister. Not justt he people in your coven but every member of nightkind save the invisibles was called brother or sister. That is the pride one takes in the tether of blood.

Eternally,

Aislin
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The Not So Good Old Days

Postby The Madame X » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:59 pm

Today we can readily access information on the vampyre subculture on the internet by simply plugging in “Vampire” or “Vampyre” and adding the words organization, family, house or coven. We might be surprised to find local, international and worldwide groups with anywhere from 2 to 1000 members, catering to a wide variety of interests from mythology, spirituality, Kemeticism, Satanism, ancient history, ethics, politics, philanthropy etc… with practices revolving around the-more-or-less politically correct scholarly research, social interaction, BDSM, Tantric practices, shadow-self work, exploration of the astral, energetic exchanges to blood drinking the current list is quite extensive. But it was not always this way.

Having lived in a European country during its extended dictatorship era where censorship was the ultimate ruling power, it isn’t surprising that I grew up completely unaware of the concept of real Vampirism, neglecting its very possibility. Not only were the political minded pursued by government authorities, but also artists, writers and philosophers were incarcerated labeled political prisoners. In those days censorship applied not only to the media but also the movie industry, art, literature even clothing. Words were removed from the dictionary, private correspondence was regularly read, gatherings infiltrated, government informants were everywhere, airport customs officials were very thorough and anyone or anything that did not ‘fit’ within the regime’s philosophy was confiscated and destroyed. Many international books on a wide variety of subjects were banned from even entering the country and countless national books confiscated with dire consequences to the respective authors, who were often roused from their sleep, forcefully removed from their houses, interrogated, tortured and eventually forgotten in some prison cell. Topics regarding mythology, esotericism, mysticism and the occult were not even discussed, much less witchcraft, the occult or live-vampirism.

But the will of man prevailed. What could not be passed on in writing was passed on orally thru extensive repetition and memorization. What was scrutinized by the authorities became so elaborately remote, or so blatantly obvious, that not even the most efficient officials could put their fingers on it. For those who knew the right people or went through the right channels the books still filtered in, the gatherings became possible and somehow they remained out of eminent danger passing on their knowledge to chosen select few. Covens of 13 still gathered both in urban and rural settings, The Ancients revered, the Old Traditions upheld, and Vampirism cultivated secretly without pomp n’circumstance.

It was not until April of 1975 that information began to enter the country, and this time with no holds barred: eastern philosophy, the invisible realms, paranormal investigations, divination methods, demonic possessions, medieval sorcery … it was all there at our reach. All, except Vampirism.

Before the onset of the internet and with it the assurance of insuring anonymity, accessing and disbursing information on live-vampirism was not that simple, in fact it was nearly impossible. While the inexperienced seeker might have tried to find vampire groups in underground bars, fetish gatherings, or nightclubs it was hit and miss…mostly miss. Such places were no doubt hunting grounds but seldom gathering places. It was rare for Vampyres to socialize with each other. In fact while they might have recognized each other’s nature they would generally claim their territory possibly having the newcomer removed or made feel unwelcome by the regular locals. Most Hunting grounds were a one Vamp’s territory … or exclusive to their family or coven. Seekers might actually be in danger should they enter another’s hunting ground.
Another avenue some seekers would cleverly try would be to tap into the resources of fiction authors, who more often than not had some sort of inside knowledge, and these efforts were rarely successful but provided some hope to the few. In many parts of the world there were gatherings of writers, poets and philosophers that attracted vampires, but these seldom revealed their nature, happy to be able to extemporalize over topics like eternity, the spirit and forbidden secrets without reproach. More recently, such groups published publications that were a beacon to others like themselves, who simply understood.
The more ingenious seeker may have instead looked for magical covens, occult groups or spiritual organizations which might have had some connection with vampirism. This might have actually been the best approach by far. Some “exoteric” organizations, gatherings and even galleries, book-stores and other store-fronts were in fact ‘covers’ for more secret witchcraft, Satanism, demonism or even vampirism centered groups. On many occasions the local healer, astrologer or reader would know a bit more than expected on such topics despite the blatant New Age, Kemetic or Christian paraphernalia.

In any situation, the seeker needed to be ‘discovered’ and sponsored to even be privy to any group that could offer information on such. Vampirism was a very well kept secret among those in the know, and for very good reasons. The honest reality is that if seekers were not ‘discovered’ they had no option but to remain clueless and alone, often in denial or boarded-shut in their own houses as mad. Those that were fortunate enough to have been discovered might have ended up on the altar of a devil-worshiping cult, there was no telling once that door was opened, but there were some lucky few who managed to find themselves among scholars or mages that guided their progress and awarenesses. Some witchcraft/Satanic/vampiric organizations were interconnected but the majority were isolated groups that practiced in utter secrecy expecting no less from their membership. To this day many uphold a mundane ‘cover’ to legitimize their gatherings and business dealings. While I’m inclined to say “you may be surprised on what kind of businesses are covers for vampire groups” I must reconsider; most of us have watched ‘Angel’.

We have certainly come a long way. I look forward to seeing where the path will lead you, me, our society and our culture as a whole.
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Postby Aislin Ni MorRhiaghan » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:40 pm

I had heard that things overseas were quite bad for our kind but did not realize they were that bad. Perhaps it's because I never watched the news when I was a kid so I didn't really know what was going on in the world. I knew there had to be more vampyres our there than just me but there was no way to know for sure until I met one. In any case, I suppose even as dire as things were in those days they were still much better than they were for you. We could at least have some books in the better book stores that had some left hand persuasion. Unfortunately if we went looking for books of vampires we would likely find Anne Rice, Stoker, or other work of fiction. Nothing concrete and so we would have to be a maater of cross referencing. I read quite a lof ot Crowley in those days although it wasn't easy to come by. Most of the time those books had to be specially ordered because they weren't readily available. There were rumors of devil worshipping cults everywhere here so even to get those books you would have to know who to talk to, where to go, and so forth. It was a pretty scary time for vamps. Now all one seems to need is a pair of fangs. So ingrained was the concept of secrecy that up until a few years ago I wouldn't purchase a book pertaining to vampyrism in a public bookstore. I wouldn't address members of the community even though many are more open than they were then. It was not a matter of snubbing them but a matter of respect as in the old days we were expected to do so. I have to wonder what is around the corner. as I feel another wave of change coming.

Eternally,

Aislin
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Postby EzikielTempted » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:59 am

SINcerely,

Ezikiel
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Postby Aislin Ni MorRhiaghan » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:21 pm

Make no mistake ET, those days were not all galas and curtsies. They were brutal for those that were in the community. I know a man who was whipped within an inch of his life because his chylde broke circle. I know of many who have marks to prove that those days weren't all wine and roses. We have a lot to be thankful for where they are concerned but a healthy respect for them is enough. I don't think the community could handle returning to those types of stringencies.
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Postby EzikielTempted » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:03 pm

believe me, Ii know how strict the masters of the Orders were. Many of what you said gave me very distinct impressions of the moment where you yourself felt fear, and pity for the people being set through disciplinary actions.

Don't get me wrong, Aislin, the only reason that it was nostalgic for me was because of my last few encounters of being within secret orders. It just brings back memories. :)
SINcerely,

Ezikiel
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Postby SoVeReIgN » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:24 pm

Ah, Aslin—weaver of tapestry— spin me a tale, and tangle me within it.

You do indeed spin such truly fine silk with your vibrant and vivid tales of yore.

I enjoyed your reflections very much—it was an insight that I had not had the privilege to gleam until now.

Big smiles and sloppy smoochies,

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The Otherkin Rift

Postby The Madame X » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:58 am

Otherkin and Therians have never been easily accepted by society. They were always labeled 'weird' and cast aside even by those that might be considered weird as well, like vampires and witches. It has not been until the recent past and thanks to the understanding and connectivity brought by the internet that therianothrophy has been accepted by some Vampire Organizations. That said Therians have for the most part been loners, often isolating themselves from the rest of society, or instead and much like Otherkin they would resort to hiding their true nature in order to be able to belong and grow within magical/vamp/spiritual organizations. This of course became different with the dawn of the internet, which facilitated the open, annonymous communication between the like-minded.

But when did this segregation begin? I do believe there was a time when Otherkin, Therians, Vamps and the Magical-minded worked together in many ways, understanding that their nature and purpose was not that different, it fact it was complementary. We can certainly see this quite boldly in the ancient cultures of the Egyptians, the Akkadians, the Babylonians and the Chaldeans.

The witch hunts of the middle ages targeted not only witches but vamps, therians, otherkin, occultists, alchemists, and any individual that was remotely gifted or different. It was this that caused a huge rift between nightkind. The issue was trust. Who can Nightkind trust among themselves? Unfortunately otherkin and therians took the brunt of the blame in part because their natures are more untamed. The next group that took blame were the vamps whose practices became considered too obvious and risky by association. The next was of course the witches who still managed to cultivate their knowledge as healers and seers. This rift insured the limited and often secretive survival of the occultists and the alchemists who proposed science and insured the continuation of astrology, hermeticism and germanic traditions among others.

Certainly there were and are old packs of Therians in Northern Europe and central that preserved their identity and practices by meeting in secret locations. These were and are rare. That I know of there is still one Old Pack which remains active to this day. Not an easy feat. They have yearly or biannual gatherings and are part of modern society, meaning they do not all live as primitives the woods, but have jobs, drive cars etc.

Of course the history of Therians in other continents like the Americas and Asia is quite different, but unfortunately beyond my scope of experience. I would love to hear what you might be able to add.
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Postby EzikielTempted » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:49 am

If only we could get a couple for interviews on the Collective! * swoon *
SINcerely,

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