95%

[Khan]

Since this has become a rather debated topic, I thought it prudent to spell it out, in detail, for those who ask why I continue with this train of thought.

The beginning of February, I was in Newark, NJ at a club with Madame X and Wulfsunus from House of the Dreaming. While we were standing outside, we meet a young man, about 19, who was passing out fliers for a vamp-themed night at another club. During this meeting, he explained how he thought he was a vampyre, since he had been reading Michelle's Codex, and Vampires In Their Own Words, and he mirrored much of what had been written. He said he even wrote an email to Father Sebastiaan asking if he was a vamp, to which he got the reply that he would have to come up with his own decision based on what he thought.

Mind you, Madame X and I were chuckling like hell, since he mentioned the book we were both in, as well as him emailing Sebastiaan. So we wished him well with his reading, and went back into the club, laughing the rest of the night.

The problem is: this is a general representation of many claiming to be vampires. It makes me reflect to when I first came online looking for others. I started in Kheperu's forum, and saw for the thousands that were writing on posts, most were trying to validate their reasons for being vampires without any substantial revelation about actually practicing vampyrism. There was maybe a handful that actually could.

As I traveled to other groups and forums, I saw practically the same thing. Hundreds of blood gods and vampyresses, and a handful of people that actually knew what they were talking about.

So I started going to different events. Lo and behold: the same result. People knew how to dress up and talk a mean game, with very little substance, or the ability to have their own thoughts on something that is supposed to be such an important part of their lives.

I started getting email after email from people who saw my personal website, asking a whole lot of questions. Most of those were folks wondering if they were vampires. And through my reading, I noticed that there were similar themes as the discussions went in depth. For many of the females, it was that they had been assaulted, sexually, or in violent relationships. For males, it was that they weren't overly popular, or were shunned by their classmates or co-workers. It was also common that after some kind of traumatic event that they thought they were vampires, or wanted to be vampires.

It didn't take rocket science or an in-depth study to realize that most who claimed they were vampyres were actually wanting to be seen as vampyres. It was a sense of escapism to rid them of the persona that they thought had caused the traumatic event in the first place. If someone got dumped because they weren't exiting enough, or picked on for not being man enough, they believed that by claiming to be a vamp, wearing all black, and acting like they were part of some underground culture would alleviate that problem. And when more information became available that they could possibly be considered vampyres without having to drink blood, the rolls of these groups grew exponentially, far outweighing the ones who actually fed psychically.

I have met people, both in the US and overseas, because of being a part of our society. And I had very little problem discerning who was genuine, and who was trying to fit in. It takes just a few minutes of conversation and observing mannerisms to figure that out. I won't even include the ever-debated Beacon aspect into the equation. But I have learned that people who actually practiced vampyrism were able to relate that from a very personal aspect, rather than just reciting someone else's words.

As time went on, I started getting more involved with he politics of our kind. And as I met more people who were supposed to be "leaders," they didn't say anything different from any other group of a hundred people, or would make claims that I knew were rubbish, like being descended from a secret bloodline or "turned" by another "leader." It struck me as these supposed leaders were really folks who were capable of getting popular consensus for others to believe in their regurgitated statements rather than by working with individuals to find their own answers. I remember the Father Todd Petition, and how many were so quick to add their name, even if they had no contact with him at all.

The OVC, to me, is a herd mentality. You have a handful of individuals, and packs of people with too much time on their hands, or disenfranchised with their own existences, who wish to emulate that rather than speak from their own perspectives. The truth is: most don't have their own perspectives. You can switch out one screen name for another, and get the very same words. Almost verbatim.

So even if they might be good people, whether or not I get along with them, doesn't make them an actual vampyre. An actual vampyre practices vampyrism for their own need, and not to fit in. They are capable of relaying their natures from a personal perspective and have different thought on why they are what they are with variations different than just a copy of someone who already put their thoughts out there.

The great thing about being alive is that we all have the free will to follow our own paths. Not only do I follow my own path, but I have been lucky enough to find and meet others who do the same. For those that take too much time trying to pretend they are something they're not, I'll be here to toss the bullshit flag.

I don't expect what I say here to become doctrine or popular. But I will say what I believe in, rather than compliment the emperor on his "new clothes."

[deacongray]

greetings Khan,

You are right this is always a hot topic on the sights, in my simplistic view it is the "Whose Real?" question.

I don't doubt you are right, I have met a lot over time and most of them aren't what I would consider to be real vampires. Yet, how else will they find out?

The sites are like nets in a lot of ways. A lot of little fish swim through, but once in a while the real ones get caught up. Many are out looking for those few 5% that are real, and yes in some ways we put up with a lot of crap to find them.

Yet...It is often subjective determinations that lead people to their conclusions. I have heard more than once were a person is not liked, so they are labled as fakes, when previously they were fully held in the arms of the community.

Places like this, were people are actually considered based on more than their popularity, we accept that people can be one of us, with out being US.

I guess what I am working around to saying is this, we ( the community) spend to much time worrying about who is Real, and not enough time worrying about learning and growing on our own paths. There are lots of people out there who are eager to call bullshit on others, so few others who are willing or interested in looking for something more.

Anyway just thoughts, thank you for posting and getting my mind working

Deacon

[Aradia]

Greetings Deacon and Khan.
This is an interesting topic.
During my search I found many people like that.
People who were and did not know, and others that were never sought but is in any way.Many read much about it and end up assimilating themselves into the myth vampires.
They want greatly to belong to a group, then, are repeating what they read as if such words were part of their experiences.
I think perhaps you may agree with me that the vampire characteristics that are exposed on the web, may be due to various other things such as a psychological disease for example.
So how do you know for sure who's who for sure?
In my life I have found some psys very difficult being vampires ... even some bloody suffering from a disease with certainty.
I think the fact that some develop mentalism or the act of drinking or wish to drink blood, does not make anyone a vampire.
A vampire is much more than that. Is in your soul! I hope I have managed to express that clearly.


Embraces

[Khan]

I think what many have delineated from this post (which is in multiple locations) would be that I'm trying to determine who "real" vampyres are. This, in fact, is not so much what I'm referring to.

For instance, if someone was a bit vampyric and predominantly otherkin, as long as they represent themselves that way, I have no qualms. Likewise, if they are interested in vamps and want to associate with vamps, I have no qualms with that, either.

My issue are those who claim to be something they aren't, or are hopeful of being. For folks who are generally looking for answers, I would look forward to a day when the people giving the answers are those with first-hand knowledge. So many times someone who is not genuine has their hands on somebody who is, and then causes people to have to unlearn theories that should have been left alone.

It's just about integrity. I can accept anyone if they claim to be their true selves. If someone came to me and said they were a lifestyler, for instance, I can openly appreciate where they come from. Everyone has their own niche, and there is a place for that. But should they cross the line, and claim they are giving out personal knowledge of their vampyrism without being actual practitioners, then that would be what my original posts refers to.

[Wulfsunus]

Good post Khan, glad this came out of the encounter from the club that night, but I have a question, what really makes us what we are, no matter what it be?

A desire to continue a path.

So let time sift out the dirt.
For even though many may be mislead by poor information, eventually if someone sticks with it they will get what they strive for.

We become our habits, and reputation proceeds us.

[Khan]

Good posts, and I'm glad this is becoming a really meaty discussion. Wulfsunus, I agree with your assessment. Time will surely sift out the dirt. I suppose years of mental frustration is what is really the point of this...

Vampyre society ("the community") has grown exponentially over the more recent years. During my participation in it, I've witnessed the psi/ sang flame wars, the pro and anti- OSV movement, arguments for and against Houses, who is "real" fights, and endless claims for Unity. Now, it's who's going to be the best tv vamp. I suppose I speak my piece because I think we have a much better potential.

I truly think that most folks who take the time to get involved in this aspect of our nature all have an important role to play, because basically, the more folks who have an understanding of what we are, and we understand where they are, the more solid our voice becomes instead of being treated like circus freaks.

I can respect anyone's nuances when they're honest about it. I'm not therian, but I respect that therians have their own issues to deal with and are able to maintain good dialogue with vamps. I'm not otherkin, but for folks who have that as part of their existence, I am glad there are truly knowledgeable folks with which I can have good conversations, and in turn, be more reflective of myself. That, I was under the impression, was why we network, was so that by learning of others, we have the luxury of growing ourselves. I have friends who are only into the aesthetics of vampires, and they are truly good people. I can understand why they do what they do, because again, they are open enough so that there is enough of an information exchange for both sides to garner something from having that kind of a relationship.

I believe that the "community" in its current state actually fosters people to try and fit in as something they aren't, and I think fostering that kind of attitude only hurts us in the long run. Not just vampyres or therians or otherkin, but it hurts those that have an interest and are not of our nature. There's a valuable relationship that could be had between us and the mainstream, but it seems to get bogged down by distractions.

So maybe rather than the mindset of calling those who are and those who aren't, I believe I'm proposing that if folks are into the aesthetics because they feel empowered, we should accept that without creating an environment where they feel compelled to pretend the practice of vampyric draw to feel like they belong. If folks are into energy work, an effort needs to be made to say that such a practice isn't vampyrism, but because it bears similarities to what we do, we can both grow from what we know and what the possibilities are. If you're a writer who's into the macabre genre, I think we need to have more appreciation of what they're trying to accomplish than tell them they will only get our "secrets" if they're part of our "club."

No group grows if individuals in that group aren't growing. Everyone benefits most when they can be the best "you" you can be, and once everyone can get a bit more enlightened with what they are, collectively we can all grow. Otherwise, we are best kept to ourselves, and I would hate to see that as the final result.

[The Madame X]

[deacongray]

Those all all very good points.

I guess I see somethings from a less popular view. The community in my view controls nothing, its the individual relationships and more so those few groups out there like the HOTD that draws people in, often inviting them here, because we feel that beacon, and because they fit with those already present.

I see most of the attempts at making big changes in the community much akin to herding cats. For me it is the interpersonal relationships that matter most.
Though sure, we drop out drift lines for those looking for something more than the common community rhetoric
Deacon

[EzikielTempted]

I myself had often doubted the ways of vampirism. Both as to my own need and my own awakening (as painfully inept as I was/am over that whole ordeal) into the ways of a vampire. It occurs to me that other may have had these trepidations, doubting not only themselves but their own mentality and how to handle the situations you are put into.

Vampires, while quite glamorous and powerful archetypes, also show us in media that they doubt, and that they go through many of the same trepidations as any other occultist. The Dark night of the soul may effect us in amny ways and in many subtle realms berfore our own courage helps us stand up and fight for our way of life.

Though my Dragon may be deep within me, resting, I can feel it stir. The anticipation of the coming days and months is strong, for I know that my own violition is breaking through the veil of the mundane. Perhaps that 5% error of margin is inaccurate to those us us that are true, and working to make ourselves better creatures as a result.

I've met amazing people, people that I would never doubt or question their abilities and their own ideals- and many that I could probably do without. Wether or not they are "true" vampires in the sense of which definition is of little importance to me, it's their ability to work from the vampire model, and grow into a being of brilliance and awareness by using those gifts or talents latent in themselves.

My two cents,

SINcerely,

Ezikiel

[Khan]

This wasn't intended to be vampyre specific. It was a commentary of people making claims that, per chance, are not genuine.

[SophieAnn]

Hi all

Wow, what an interesting discussion!

I am new to the vampyre scene. I have written vampyre fictional stories and played vampire roll-playing games, especially Bloodlines: the Vampire Mascurades which I thought was excellent. In both instances I am allowing my inner soul to explore in a fantasy situation without having the confines and consequences of real life. However, I also acknowledge whilst these activities help me explore, grow and to learn, they do not also make me a vampyre because they are works of fiction. Within the fiction there are elements of truth that pertain to my dark personality - perhaps the wish for freedom or the feeling of what it is like to be powerful and seductive, without the guilt and the worry of what I have done. Yet, these fictional examples only facilitate what I am learning within the mortal plane ('reality'). This is, I believe, what our dreams give us and is one of the reasons why I have come to this group.

So can what we involve fictionally become real? I would say not, although again there are certain aspects which are true and indicate our need for growth and exploration. I think only those by coming to a site like this would someone be able to discover whether or not he or she was vampyric. And to know they would not be loved any less should their path reveal they are not: indeed in discovering they are not, they may discover different truths about their inner personality.

I think I understand the objection being made in this post about people who use vampyricism for bravado, imagery and drama, and bring others along into it without any understanding of the psychological consequences of doing so. I also understand there are a lot of 'parrot vampyres' [runs back and looks up Madame X's text on the name of those who share their spirit with a bird roflmao] who are unable to substantiate any personal experiences and then act they are more powerful and knowledgeable than anyone else.

Growth and understanding are always changing, and so is our sense of self. Those who are committed to the journey continue to learn and develop. Those who are not, I would guess get found out. It is just sad when those who use such groups for the wrong reasons spoil it for everyone else.

Blessings and love
Sophie
xxxxx

[deacongray]

Great response,

On parroting others I would have to say that in this community most every one starts out spewing the same info that they read off line. Typically speaking most people only expand, or add in their own two cents on other peoples idea's anyway.

The great thing about the HOTD is that they encourge you to find your own path, even if that path leads away from Vampyirism.

The house does not respect people less for not being vampyric, our friends are our friends regardless, as long as they are open minded enough to allow others their beliefs, even if they are willing to debate them in an adult fashion.

Again great response

Deacon Gray

[EzikielTempted]

Nifty that people are getting into this one.

Khan, I didn't mean to sound Vampyre specific either- the same concepts apply to the Otherkin Community, and the world in general. As long as the path you lead, leads you to a better you, who is to judge the path you take.

Something must have drawn these people to this community, wether or not they are "true" to themselves in encouraging their studies with the Vampyre houses is up for them to discover. While they may be misguided by not understanding their own intentions is a mystery.

I wish there was a test-- drop of pee on the absorbant end and if it turns red in 2 minutes, you're (insert title here)! If only life's questions were this simple.

[The Madame X]

Ezikiel that is absolutey fabulous!
EPT for vamps...EVT, for therians ... ETT and for otherkin ... EOT

hehe But I suppose there would still be a chance for a false positive...
You know we could sell these on E-bay...lol

[Aislin Ni MorRhiaghan]

The problem is: this is a general representation of many claiming to be vampires. It makes me reflect to when I first came online looking for others. I started in Kheperu's forum, and saw for the thousands that were writing on posts, most were trying to validate their reasons for being vampires without any substantial revelation about actually practicing vampyrism. There was maybe a handful that actually could.


I could not agree with this post more having had these sorts to deal with on a routine basis. I couldn't tell you how many people ask me to tell them if I think they are vampyres. I tell them that is not my place, and it isn't and it never will be. You can not make a silk purse from a sow's ear and you certainly can not create a vampyric soul within someone who is normal, nor an otherkin soul within someone who does not already have it. "To thine own self be true"...truer words were never spoken. Another old and wise adage along the same lines...know thyself, the first rule of any magickal or spiritual endeavor. If someone asks another person to define who they are they are not asking for that definition but rather to be accepted within that portion of society they have deemed to be more than what they already are. I am endlessly both annoyed and amazed that people are so unaccepting and dishonest with who they are that they will go to no end to create a facade, a persona, an aestheticly pleasing image of what they have concluded is socially acceptable over their true self.

When I meet another vampyre or otherkin I know it. There is no way around it. I can "hear" them coming around the block before they even walk in the building, area, whatever. I know they are there. My biggest problem isn't that someone wishes to identify with that sort of presence and power, but that someone is willing to begin a potential friendship with a lie. Even if it is someone I just met, if they come at me with an approach like that they won't get very far with me. I will have no desire to have further communication with them. I have no less consideration for someone of magickal persuasion that approaches me with tales of items flying across the room, being a priestess or priest after only two weeks in a coven, and summoning up demons. I will smile, nod, walk politely away, but I will not be able to take them seriously.

Personally I think claiming to be something you aren't is every bit as foul as people who claim a heritage they do not have for the simple reason of nororiety. Perhaps my views are elitist and harsh, but they are at least honest.


Eternally,

Aislin