The History of Halloween

[Jezabel]

[RavenHarte]

[Jezabel]

[RavenHarte]

[Aeon_Atratus]

Very interesting. Thanx both of you for the articles!

[Terpsichore]

My history of dance class is taught by a man who graduated from Oxford, and apparently has the pleasure of looking throught the vaults and libraries of the vatican. I dont know how this came about, but I do know that he does speak latin, so I take his word for truth. In my class, he was telling us about how the Catholic church found it neccessary to cover up pagan feast days with 'christian holidays' For example, the Catholic church knows for a fact that Christ was born in winter, but we placed Chirstmas in december, because that was the day of a major pagan holiday, though I'm not sure which one. Thus, the Catholic church decided that Samhain was just too big of a celtic holiday filled with blasphemy to be ignored. Thats why Rome adopted 'Halloween' as a holiday.

But this could just be the ramblings of the old, alcoholic with parkinsons who teaches dance history here. But frankly, I like the guy and I thought maybe his statements would be true.

[Jezabel]

Raven Harte, that was cute and HILARIOUS. Terpsichore that's a very interesting, if you find out anything more, I'd love to hear about it.

[The Madame X]

[RavenHarte]

[RavenHarte]

Lady Blak:

There is actually much written on this subject from not only the Pagan aspect, but from the Christian and anthropological as well. Since I am not at home with my own files I can only give you sources I can easily find now, but should be enough to get you started on your own research if you are so inclined. At very least it will hopefully give you enough to understand that it is not MY intent to Christian bash, especially having been raised Episcopal myself, but it is what is widely accepted as part of the history of how Christianity was brought to the European Pagans.

Sooo to start with, a great concise understanding of the standard Pagan festivals, our understanding of their origins and what Christian holidays now stand in their stead, see http://www.holysmoke.org/wb/wb0280.htm

From the Catholic perspective..
It was Pope Gregory himself who basically said to keep the Pagan symbols and festivals in place and to place Christian feasts over them. Brilliant if you think about it. See American Catholic for info on that

http://www.americancatholic.org/Feature ... sp?id=1396

As to other Christian sites... Today, many other Christian faiths do not practice the same Roman Catholic calendar, or if they do, its not in the same ways, BECAUSE they find these holidays to be too Pagan in origin or the symbols etc which have been retained so. These are some examples of those ideas....

http://biblicalstudies.qldwide.net.au/p ... part4.html

http://godkind.org/pagan-holidays.html

http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/holidays2.htm

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-holidays.html (see links here)

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm


Now as Anthropological type studies or done by PHds whatever....

http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/xmas1.html

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~radnat/sunic2.html

http://www.poncacitynews.com/pcnews/new ... page6.html

http://www.comparative-religion.com/alt ... uction.php
This is Margaret Murrays work, a renouned anthropologist. It is rather long but the first page is what I targeted about the hitsory of Paganism and Christianity


A good basic history of Christianity, in short, is on:

http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyc ... anity.html

This doesnt give the entire story of how each peoples were converted of course, but its great history, does talk a bit about the Crusades and the Burning Times, both of which are huge black marks on the history of Christianity, so it impressed me the detail that they are given.

One thing we all need to remember is our founding fathers, (those who landed here first not in regards to government, as those men were actually Deists and not Christians at all) came here because the Anglican church had not reformed far enough away from the practices of the Roman Catholic church. So we may be a melting pot now, but even 380 yrs later the undercurrent that this is a Christian nation stills stands, EVEN THOUGH statistics prove that nonChristians are actually the majority in the country.

So I do think some of the "Christian bashing" that pops up on sites and in life even comes from a place of frustration and anger. People want their truths to be told, their voices heard, especially here in a country where the media, our tv and movies, even our government still likes to hold Christianity up as the predominant and even in some cases, the better or ONLY religion. Do I think thats the answer, of course not. But it IS a possible reason why people get so defensive and vehement about their positions.

I hope this info helps.. if you need any more, or in a specific area, let me know and I'll see if I have anything here, otherwise I'll lok at my files at home in NC.

[RavenHarte]

I agree the past is the past, the problem is Pagans are still persecuted in the US even today. (and not just Pagans of course) We get our kids taken away, lose jobs, etc all because we are not Christian.

Heck as far as someone like me even, when George W was asked the questions "With religious diversity increasing, what are your thoughts on the protection of religious freedom and the separation of church and state? Should religions like Wicca be banned from recognition by the military, as some legislators suggest?"

He replied: "I am committed to the First Amendment principles of religious freedom, tolerance, and diversity. Whether Mormon, Methodist, Jewish, or Muslim, Americans should be able to participate in their constitutional free exercise of religion. I do not think witchcraft is a religion, and I do not think it is in any way appropriate for the U.S. military to promote it."

Well where would that have left me, when the US Military Chaplains Handbook has actually covered Wicca/Witchcraft since 1990??? Its these kinda things that get people all fired up.

[RavenHarte]

Trust me honey *I* for one would never purposely treat you or anyone else that way. Since I embrace all religions as necessary and important to the peoples of this planet, all people as sacred, I try not to harbor ill in such broad sweeping ways. In fact I think I am probably too trusting and too accepting for my own good. Takes a lot for me to turn on someone...

SO if I ever say ANYTHING which you feel is a personal attack on you or Christianity in general, please tell me because I dont mean to do so, and would love to have it pointed out to me so I can be more mindful of it!!!

[The Madame X]

"The Facts on Halloween - What Christians Need to Know" by John Ankerberg & John Weldon (c) 1984

Is a neet little book that I picked up at a Christian Shop when I needed to discuss Halloween with my GodDaughter a few years ago.
I may not give her or the other trick-a-traters messages of Salvation with the candy, but I can certainly approach it from a more Christian point.
This book clearly mentions the pagan origins of Halloween and... really pontificated on the occult worries that come from cellebrating this day.
I just can't help to wonder... how does one dress up like a satanist??

I guess some questions will never have absolute answers.

[Jezabel]

[redlotus88]